Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject: Starting in DCC?
I've been offerd a bargin Bachman EZ controller, which would help me with running and storing all my locos - keep them on the track and run them individually.
I have a couple of basic, newbie questions though: -
i) can you add a DCC decoder to any loco? All mine are older DC locos. I have no idea if they have sockets or not!
ii) How do I find the socket to plug the decoder into?
iii) if the loco doesn't have a socket, can I still use a decoder with it and if so, how?
iv) where is the cheapest and best place to buy decoders from? I've heard it's best to use Lenz or Bachman with the EZ
Many thanks, _________________ The Thing (aka Hugh)
Location: Camborne, Home of the Steam Locomotive in 1801
Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject:
1) You can put a decoder into almost anything with a motor, no matter whether it's got a socket or not.
2) A DCC socket will normally be close to the motor, and is more obiviously placed in steam engines, but is very visable in both. For 8 pin decoders, it will be about 2cm by 1cm, will have 8 metal things on it, and may have the number 1 in one of the corners.
3) You can use decoders with engines without sockets. You cut off the decoder plug, solder the red and black wires to the pick-ups torwards the wheels, and the orange and grey wires to the motor contacts.
4) I use Hornby decoders, nice and cheap, £10 each. Not sure what type of decoder is best for the Bachmann controller, though Bachmann might be a good guess(!) _________________ Life is like a box of chocolates, so scoff it all while you can... Any more trouble from you, and it's a short sharp visit from the smack fairy!
Location: Camborne, Home of the Steam Locomotive in 1801
Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject:
There's a ryhme, 'Red and black go to the track, orange and grey go the other way.'
There's also this video poliss posted a while ago:
Link [/ _________________ Life is like a box of chocolates, so scoff it all while you can... Any more trouble from you, and it's a short sharp visit from the smack fairy!
As Declan has said almost any locos can befitted with DCC decoders as long as some golden rules are followed ......
1. Make sure the wires connect to the correct locations.
2. The motor must be insulated from the chassis and each side of the chassis from each other.
3. If wires need to be joined from the decoder use heatshrink tubing not tape to cover the join.
4. Dont trap wires between the body and chassis try to route them neatly while fitting the decoder on a hardwire, good way is to use a piece of thin tape across the chassis and use a cocktail stick to lift the edge threading the wire as you do the installl ... when everythings settled press the tape over the wires ...... so they lie nice and flatly....... this install i did shows how much tape is needed at times to save nipped wires shorting on the chassis space was very tight in this one http://thecentralstation.myfreeforum.org/about1619.html
As a option to the decoders mentioned have a look at TCS they do some well priced ones with more features and ease of CV settings.
Clicking on the product line link there should help as the install pictures section showing many locos, anything you need in particular just shout as i know Poliss has posted lots of guides and amassed as i have information on DCC fitting. _________________
I,m no expert on DCC but I thought the EZ from Bachmann will only do 9 DCC locos and a DC setting ? could be wrong but worth checking _________________ Experience is something you don' t get until just after you need it .
Thanks for all the replies and the useful info. I've had a quick look at the video and some of my locos and it seems like one of those things I'll have to fiddle with!
A lot of the locos just seem to have black wires inside, but I suspect that all will become clear when I get my hands on the controller and decoders.
The EZ does only controll 9 DCC locos and 1 DC loco but, at present, I don't really need much more. I have, at a push, some 13 locos, but I've not the space to have them all on the layout at once. Particularly, I have 3 0-4-0Ts, that I intend to use just for shunting. I expect I can use them on the layout pretty much on their own, so doubling up of addresses should create too many problems (i.e. one of the 0-4-0Ts can share the same address as, say, the A4 as I'm unlikely to have both on the rails at once.)
I've gone ahead with the purchase of the EZ controller, so now I just need to find some decoders. I'm happy to get them as and when, no rush to get all the locos chipped straight away!
No doubt, I'll have more questions as time arises. In the meanitme, if anyone comes across photos or videos of hardwiring any of the following, I'd be garetful!: -
- 2 x Lima Class 47 Duffs
- Lima Class 40 Whistler
- 2 x Lims Class 31
- Lima Class 37
- Airfix 4F Fowler 0-6-0
- Lima 'Crab'
- Hornby R350 A4 Mallard (from 1980's)
- Hornby R353 LBSC 0-6-0T E2
- Lima 'Warship'
- Airfix 2-6-2T Prairie Tank
- 3 old ish 0-4-0T Hornby. _________________ The Thing (aka Hugh)
Hmm, although my 47 doesn't llok like that inside!
It has a single black wire running from the boogie below the motor to the motor diode (?) and a single black wire that runs to a pin holding the front boogie in!
It's not going to be as easy as I thought! _________________ The Thing (aka Hugh)
I'm still having trouble geting my head round this!
I understand Red and black go to track, orange and grey go away, but none of my locos seem to be colour coded!
I enclose some picture of naked locos (those of a nervous disposition should close this message innediately!) to illustrate my quandry!
Red and black go where, orange and grey go where?
Apologives for being a real divvy, but hopefully you can set me straight for once and for all!
First up the tender drive for my Mallard A4 (Hornby R350). This definately predates DCC!
Lima D814 Warship class Dragon
Airfix 2-6-2T Prairie Tank
Lima Class 47 'Duff'
Lima class 37. Surprisingly, that wire was loose when I took the body off and there are no wires protruding from the plastice sleeve. It seems to run ok without that being connected to anything!
Cheers for looking! _________________ The Thing (aka Hugh)
The wire colours are the ones fitted to the decoder .Not the wires in the loco
The spare wire you have on the Lima 37 goes through a hole in the chassis to pick ups on the wheels of the bogie _________________ Experience is something you don' t get until just after you need it .
The phrase red & black to track of course is correct but is misleading for the grey and orange wires here is a diagram to show how they go
A good book for general advice on DCC is Aspects of modelling -Digital Command Control by Ian Morton http://tinyurl.com/nhw4w8
the prices there are crazy dont know where they got them from as i paid £11.50 for mine new on ebay ....... or borrow it from your library a request for it to be brought to your library is cheaper than buying it.
Good guide for all aspect of DCC. _________________
So, if I've got this right, on the A4 tender, I connect Orange and grey where the red and black connect to the spring holders and red and black to where the red and black connect to the frame? _________________ The Thing (aka Hugh)
Yes, but you have to watch out for the screw on the Ringfield motor as it is known to cause short circuits and fry the decoder. May need to be replaced with a nylon screw.
Can anyone remember the exact solution? _________________ Get off the line Bobby!
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t184/Poliss_album/
Looks okay on that ringfield motor , as its the early ones with the screws holding the metal brush plates in place that have the shorting trouble , as this one has two wires going to it should be okay . Its when there is only one wire you need to fit a shorter screw on the left side .
A quick check , remove the black wire and see if it runs on the track . If it stays still your okay _________________ Experience is something you don' t get until just after you need it .
I think I've finally clicked it now! Thanks for all your help and advice (so, far! Will no doubt pester you more in future!)
Just waiting for the controller to wend it's way thru the post now. I've got a Hornby R8249 decoder to wire into the A4 already and I'll have a bash at this over the w/end.
Really rather excited about it all now! Gone from thinking that DCC was too compicated and expensive to thinking what I can now achieve with it! _________________ The Thing (aka Hugh)
I got the decoder wired into the Mallard and it ran ok for a while, but just ground to a halt.
Some investigation, discovered that the orange and black wires had come loose from the decoder chip itself. This is a bit too fine for me to consider soldering back together, but the retailer has kindly agreed to replace it for me (even though I'd already trimmed the excess wires off!)
Got a couple more of decoders on order to hardwire into more locos.
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I thought the EZ from Bachmann will only do 9 DCC locos and a DC setting ? could be wrong but worth checking 
